Ethical Criteria, Not So Black and White

25 thoughts on “Ethical Criteria, Not So Black and White”

1. This is a big question, I run an ethical website called http://www.ethicallyclothed.com and struggled with this for a while when deciding what to stock. In order to sort it out I wrote this blog entry which goes into how I choose who to stock:
   https://ethicallyclothed.com/blogs/news/112903111-how-do-i-explain-what-ethical-fashion-is

   I really enjoy your blog by the way, I was recommended it by your husband via twitter.

   1. Hey Doug! Great to have you. It IS a big question and I think it’s very gray, but we each probably have a spot where we draw the line. And perhaps the more educated we get the more we shift the line. Your blog post is very insightful! Indeed the term ‘ethical’ is very wide!

2. This is spot on. Sometimes I even wonder if not buying from a brand that produces in sweatshops is actually costing someone a meal because they will have less work. It shouldn’t stop us from trying to make the world a better place by choosing where we shop though. Small steps :)
   – X Marloes

   1. That is certainly one way to think of it! It’s a somber thought though, and I used to think along those lines in college, that we were ‘bettering’ those countries by offering jobs to down-turned economies. And while I still think those jobs are helpful, I just think the waters get murky fast when the work conditions are poor and border on abuse. It’s so hard to know the truth about factories though! And overwhelming for sure. Like you said, small steps. :)

      1. While there are no perfect companies with regards to ethical and sustainable standards, I think we need to do our best to support brands that do choose well. We still need to look at things as objectively as we can with the information that is available to us. Sometimes that means we won’t be able to tick off all the boxes in our ethical /sustainable checklists. But we should try to as much as we can. It is quite a bit of a stretch to say companies like J Crew are “ethical” but we can just admit then that this purchase pleases us without arguing for the company’s merits. Buying less, choosing better quality (for better durability) and discarding less are all helpful to change this dynamic.
         The commonly touted “trickle down economic effect” of ideas such as “at least we are providing some employment to those who work in sweatshops” is actually a very slippery slope. If we were in the workers’ positions, would we want to be treated that way? We should work hard with legislative bodies and also as consumers to avoid sweatshop made purchases when we can. This will be a long process, one that although begun long ago (at least back in the 1990s even), needs to be pursued ever more vigilantly. Consumer education and pressure on legislators and companies needs to increase not decrease. There does seem to be a movement to start things in the right direction again after the success of fast fashion over the past decade. May it continue.

         1. Here, here! May it continue indeed. Consumer education is probably the biggest key in my opinion – so many people shop in ignorance (like I did). I hope we can continue to share on social media and in blog posts and in our conversations over coffee or beers why we are making changes in the way we shop.

3. I love this palette!! I could wear it every day, honestly.

   1. Thank you Jessica! I love it too!! I think that’s why I’ve kept this chambray for so long, I love the color of it. :)

4. Such a great post! Ethical shopping is not black & white – there’s a whole lot of grey and I don’t know if the term is clearly defined anywhere. There’s a lot open to personal interpretation. I’m actually working on a blog post on this exact topic – what ethical shopping means to me.

   1. I can’t wait to read it Kisha!

5. I used to work as a fashion designer for a big name department store company. Most big names have strict factory and labor standards and regular reviews of conditions. They’ve never wanted bad press, even before it was cool to care about such things. No matter where we choose to shop, I think we can each make a difference by purchasing mindfully–things we love and will wear–not impulsively. It’s certainly a process to change your way of thinking and behaving. For me, that has been making sure I like everything about a garment. I used to buy things because I loved the color or print, but then I would end up not wearing it due to fit or fabric. Now, for the most part, I buy things I really love. Because I love most of my clothes, I’m less likely to settle for new things that aren’t 100%, and I no longer feel the need to just go buy “something” because I feel like I hate all my clothes ;)

   1. I love that standard! The more I listen to that quiet voices that raises a hesitation to something (like if I TRULY love an item), the louder it gets. But still, it is hard sometimes to know if I will really love something.

      Your prior job sounds fascinating Brandi! How did the brand you worked for regularly review the conditions of the factories they worked with?

      1. I don’t know how often they reviewed. The company has dedicated offices in each country, so there were local people employed at overseeing and managing production. In order for any factory to get a contract for production of a style, they had to meet standards.

         1. Very interesting Brandi, I did not know that!

6. I love this post! I am an international political economist by education and training, so global labor issues and governance/policy structures are fascinating to me. I will admit, I sometimes struggle with the current iteration of the ethical fashion movement – I love the desire to do good that is behind it, but I don’t think it captures the ‘big picture’ very well. There is certainly nothing wrong with “ethical fashion” as a personal choice, but I think the movement can exclude other ethical choices that don’t immediately appear ethical by a certain measuring stick, but become much more so upon deeper investigation/understanding.

   That being said, I don’t think materialism and over consumption are the answers, either, and I can fall into those traps too easily! I love clothes, but I have to be watchful that they don’t take up more of my mental/financial energy that they deserve :). I am working at trying to be more mindful with my purchases, and to not fall victim to bargains that I will never actually wear and am trying to not purchase anything that I will not wear frequently – I haven’t reached perfection, though, by any stretch of the imagination! It’s an ongoing journey! Andrea, I so appreciate your blog and how you address these things.

   1. Your comment was so fascinating to me. Could you explain what you mean by “choices that don’t immediately appear ethical”?

      I taught English in China for several years and I’ve met firsthand several people who have lifted their entire families out of poverty by working in a textile factory. It’s hard to know which factories have sweatshop-like conditions and which have better working conditions. But I’ve always thought that exclusively buying “made in USA” wasn’t necessarily the answer, because workers living overseas deserve a chance to work towards a better life too. But we do vote with our dollar, so perhaps choosing to purchase from businesses that are more transparent, even if they produce abroad, is a good choice? I’m still working through a lot of these thoughts!

      1. Camilla you definitely nailed a crux here – it is indeed hard to know which factories have sweatshop-like conditions and which have better conditions. This is why I am a big fan of brands like Brass and Everlane, they are very transparent about the conditions of the factories they work with. I am also starting to do more research via ProjectJUST.

         You also bring a great point about exclusively buying “made in USA,” something I need to remember to keep in mind. Workers overseas definitely deserve a chance to work towards a better life.

   2. Great comment Holly! I would love if you could expand on the first part, I too, am curious about issues you see as being ‘ethical’ upon further examination. Do you mean like in different industries? Food? Travel?

      As per the rest of your comment – YES, ceasing ‘bargain’ shopping has done wonders for me. I wasted far too much time, energy and money on things I didn’t end up really liking in the long run. And indeed what a great point – I too need to be watchful that clothes don’t take up more of my mental and financial resources than they deserve. Thanks for the reminder!

7. As I see it, the question we are all asking is “what is an ethical choice?” Part of the difficulty is that there is no common definition of what we are referring to when we talk about ethics – are we referring to the environmental impact of a product/industry? Or are we talking about the working conditions of the individual factories where goods are produced? Or, are we looking at the biiiig picture of raising the level of development/living standard of a country as a whole, over the long term? From my observation, most of the ethical fashion movement focuses on the second question, and sometimes the first, but doesn’t hit the third question at all, typically. I think my comment was alluding to the fact that a person could come to many different ethical conclusions/convictions, depending on the question they are trying to answer.

   If a person wants to answer the first question, the answer is pretty simple. They should only shop secondhand, or from companies who employ green manufacturing techniques. Things get a little more complicated when addressing the second question – “ethical” retailers (like Everlane) are an obvious choice, but things get a little murkier when evaluating other “good, not great” companies. What qualifies as “good enough?” If a factory is not ideal (by American standards), but is still providing someone with a job that they would not otherwise have (and is potentially allowing them to provide for their family and send their kids to school) and is not exploitative, is it acceptable?

   The answers to the third question can also vary. The branch of economics that I have a background in seeks to address and explore this question – it is a huge topic! In my experience, the more research you do, the less clear the answers become :). I will say that it is pretty commonly accepted in political economics that for a country to move from an agricultural society to one that is based on services (like the U.S.), they have to pass through a heavy industrialization stage, in whatever sector they possess a comparative advantage (i.e., textiles, for a country like Vietnam). There is no way to skip this step if a country is to move from “underdeveloped” to “developed.” Growing always comes with pains, in most areas of life. If a person is looking through this lens, purchasing ANY garment from Vietnam could be seen as an ethical choice, regardless of which factory it came from, as it is supporting the industry as a whole, which will (hopefully) lead to country-wide growth (and the higher standards/increased education levels/better health care that comes with that) over the long term.

   I’ve written far too much! I guess my main point is that there is a huuuuge spectrum of options when it comes to ethical choices, as long as one is being intentional and thoughtful with their choices. What do you all think?

   1. You make some great points, Holly. My question is whether a country going from “developing” to “developed” needs to pass through a heavy industrialization phase. Perhaps yes, if they are following a typical capitalist model, as we have come to understand in the west. This model is based on how capitalism has developed in the western nations and we seem to expect others to follow our lead, as if this is the only way. But there are also other models, also capitalist, not socialist, where other options are available. Micro-credit systems and smaller scale production can benefit communities and expand to eventually benefit entire countries. Without getting into a big political debate (which I may have started, sorry). Our own system of capitalism /consumerism seems not to be as sustainable anymore, and things will need to change in our countries too.

   2. You provide amazing insights Holly! The way you’ve organized your response makes so much sense. ‘Ethical’ is an indeed a very broad term, and I hope everyone will come back and read through this great discussion!

8. Hi Rosee! I guess, theoretically, a country would not *have* to go through a heavy industrialization phase, but at this point in history, we haven’t seen a single example that didn’t follow that path, and I don’t think that’s likely to change. This isn’t a Western phenomenon, either – South Korea, Japan, China, India, Nigeria, and Brazil are all great case studies outside of the Western world of countries that have moved or are currently moving from a manufacturing-based economy to a service-based economy (with varying levels of success). In fact, I would agree with you that some of these non-Western models would be better role models for “up-and-comers” (Vietnam, Malaysia, Bangladesh, etc) than the Western model – their “versions” of capitalism are a different, and probably more appropriate, mix of state-owned and privately-owned industry than the U.S./Britain had during our own Industrial Revolution. However, these models are still grounded in heavy industry, for good or bad.

   I also agree with you that micro-credit systems are an exciting alternative! They are small-scale, “micro” solutions by definition, however. I think that it would be incredibly challenging to see an entire country’s economy shift by this vehicle, as much as I would love to see it happen (I would love to be proven wrong)! The reason, in my opinion, is that large-scale production models are always going to be more efficient, and governments like to invest in the most efficient option, as they are the quickest and most cost-effective paths. Industries in the non-Western world tend to be more government-owned than we see in the West, and governments like to stick with what they know (in this case, heavy industry). For this reason, micro-credit is an exciting development, but is destined to stay a small-scale niche market, in my opinion.

   1. Thank you, Holly! I really appreciate your insights and expertise on this subject. I am still learning about this area, and perhaps a bit idealistic. I only hope that as individuals and as a larger community that we can take what does work well and continue, and what is problematic, we can change to better ways. This works at the macro scale with national economies but also at the micro scale with individual decisions on what resources we use and how we spend our money.

      Back to clothes, upon rereading my earlier comments and those of others, I realize I may have unintentionally sounded like I had a preconceived judgement of what is considered ethical and what is not, but honestly, I am learning as much as anyone else. I sometimes purchase items that I don’t consider ethically or sustainably produced, but that appear to be good quality and a “long-term” purchase (time will tell). I have purchased a few “ethical” clothing items where the fit was off and therefore the item was not used well. I do strongly believe that overconsumption of fashion items, or anything really, is problematic and will not be sustainable over the long term.
      Thank you to everyone for a lively and informative discussion. :)

      1. Rosee thanks so much for sharing your honest thoughts!

9. Great post, and engaging comments!! Kudos to Andrea and everyone else who shared their valuable insights on a fascinating topic.

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